Windows 11 is complete garbage

[dpastern]

Was an early adopter of Windows 11 on my old laptop (upgraded from Windows 10 pro).

Then bought a new laptop ~3 years ago and upgrade from Windows 10 home to Windows 11 pro. Upgrade went smoothly.

Now with all the garbage Microsoft has been adding (OneDrive, CoPilot and other AI garbage), and the shill practices (no longer able to install Windows 11 with a local account, online account only) I thought I was prepared.

I'd bought new RAM for the laptop (upgrade from 16 to 32GB) and a new NVME PCIe v3 hard drive (up from 256GB to 1TB) to spice some life in the laptop and increase its longevity before I look at a new laptop.

I had kept my original Windows 11 21H2 install USB, which I knew would let me bypass an online account during install. Bought a new key. Changed my hardware over, booted off the USB stick and installed the new Windows 11 install onto the new hard drive. Went to activate, got an error. Turns out, as soon as I logged into the new system, and enabled the wifi, it wanted to download, despite turning downloads off via settings prior to turning the wifi on...whilst there were pending downloads, Windows would not let me activate the install. In near 30 years, I've never seen Windows show this kind of behaviour before. Sure, it was an easy fix, but very annoying.

I thought my troubles were over...far, far, far, far from it.

Despite multiple reboots, and fixes, Windows update would not update. I was stuck at a 4 year old 21H2 system, unpatched. I didn't really think too much about it, and kept on working on installing and configuring apps and importing user data back onto the new hard drive. I went to bed at 3am. Had to be up at 6am to wake my niece to get ready for school (I'm babysitting her whilst her parents are on a cruise).

Started working on the system again, tried some more in depth fixes for the Windows Update problem. I did get it to show 25H2 available, but it would not install. Nothing else worked. Nothing. Did a system reboot...into a BSOD loop. Nothing would fix it, Windows could not repair it. Couldn't even run sfc /scannow and other tools, etc. It was utterly borked.

I booted into the bios and checked the system and drives and new RAM all tested fine (I did test them initially after physically installing them). Boot order looked OK. SecureBoot enabled. TPM 2.0 enabled. CPU (AMD 5600H compatible with Windows 11, including 25H2).

I decided to try a new ISO, this time of the latest (25H2). Went to the Microsoft ISO download page and was greeted with a "user banned". LOLWTH!

I ended up being able to download the Windows media creation tool, and it download the Windows 11 ISO and built the boot system for the supplied USB stick. It installed OK and finally, it updated. Without issue. I was obviously forced to use an online account during Windows installation - there's no way around it now, Microsoft has removed all of the work arounds. Lovely! NOT. I was able to activate the newly installed system, so pretty happy.

A mate suggested backing up the Windows install and I had a spare USB HDD so after all of the troubles, I did so. I get an error at 98% that it couldn't find and skipped some files (was the Pictures folder which I had moved to my secondary dive).

I created a new local user account (administrator privileges) and went to remove the unwanted online account. I got a warning that the drive was encrypted. Closed out of it and did some investigating. It turns out...

Windows 11 now FORCES bitlocker encryption on your drive, without asking or telling you, during the installation process. LOVELY. NOT. I had to now wait for Windows to take its sweet time to decrypt the drive. I was far from impressed. Yes it worked, but it wasted a lot of time fixing stuff that I didn't want or ask for.

As I used an online account, the AI online crap is installed - OneDrive (with it backing stuff up to that, without asking me, or without my consent). CoPilot. I terminated both unwanted spyware apps and uninstalled them, as well as a bunch of other MS cloud crap that I don't need or want.

Logged into my new local admin account, and was now safe to delete the online account. Did a test reboot to make sure it was OK. Now I could finally start configuring my Windows 11 desktop experience. Nearly 24 hours later. A normal user would have been completely and utterly lost.

I'll point out that there has been a spate of major bugs with Microsoft in the past 2 months, no doubt due to their usage of AI to write new code. I am not kidding.

This is my system Microsoft. I paid for the hardware. I paid for the licence. Get your damn hands off my system and let me control what I own.

It is now easier and much, much, much, much quicker and safer to install GNU/Linux. Even Debian. I normally wouldn't touch Windows if my life depended upon it, but until Adobe ports Lightroom Classic and Photoshop to GNU/Linux, I'm stuck. Or at least, decent open source competitors are developed by the community. Adobe products are notoriously broken when running on WINE too. Most stuff works OK, but it seems Adobe goes out of their way to make sure that their products don't work.

A bit about me - have been using Windows since 3.01. Have been using GNU/Linux since circa 1997. Have used an awful lot of operating systems over the years (Windows, Mac OS 8.6 to latest versions, freeBSD, openBSD, GNU/Linux, AmigaOS, BEos, Solaris x86). I come from an IT background (15 odd years, 8 of which I was a level 3 sysadmin for a small ISP). If Windows installation is now creating a headache for a very experienced user, then imho, it is complete GARBAGE.

Over and out, whine completed.

Dave

 

[dpastern]

I'll add that I am of the strong suspicion that Microsoft deliberately broke Windows Updates because I installed Windows and bypassed the online account requirement and used a local account.

 

[Joeseph]

It's often frustrating eh? my son's old PC has been retired from service after 4 years so yesterday we struggled with a clean install of Win 10, then figured it wouldn't let us update to Win 11 - eventually a clean Win 11 install happened after downloading a Win11 iso, then burning it to a USB stick with Rufus (that lets you create a local account for installation)
All this just to get an OS so someone can buy the box knowing it's functional. No Geforce graphics card drivers but at least it's running.

 

[dpastern]

It's often frustrating eh? my son's old PC has been retired from service after 4 years so yesterday we struggled with a clean install of Win 10, then figured it wouldn't let us update to Win 11 - eventually a clean Win 11 install happened after downloading a Win11 iso, then burning it to a USB stick with Rufus (that lets you create a local account for installation)
All this just to get an OS so someone can buy the box knowing it's functional. No Geforce graphics card drivers but at least it's running.

I'd rate this install of Windows more difficult than my very first install of Linux back in 1997...I had no one to help me and very little online information, so it was trial and error before I got the O/S installed.

These days I can get Debian installed in under 15 minutes and add a bunch of desktop environments and applications and fully updated in under another 15 minutes. The install is a breeze, and installing apps is dead easy. And Debian is a bit more difficult than some of the easier Linux distros like Mint or Ubuntu etc. Windows has went backwards.

The good news is that with Microsoft killing off Windows 10 and making 99% of those computers ineligible to upgrade to Windows 11 because of the crappy requirements (TPM 2, SecureBoot, very recent CPUs etc), a LOT of people are moving to Linux. A lot. And it's gaining momentum. People are learning that for most of them, Linux does it all, it's faster, easier to maintain, more secure, far more robust and gives much better OOTB support and there's actual choice. It runs well on older computers and is now very easy to install unless you have some rather exotic hardware. KDE, Gnome and XFCE look amazing, and offer everything that you need. My requirements are a bit more special due to software that is proprietary and doesn't run on Linux, even with WINE. If you rely on CAD software, or Adobe products, then you're stuffed.

I am watching RapidRAW, an open source replacement for Lightroom Classic very closely. Developed by an 18 year old German, started around July 2025, it has come a long way. It's still missing features, needs some maturity with the UI, and some general polish, but it's already very capable. And he's the only 1 working on it. I have no doubt that if we could get 50 odd open source developers working on it intensively for 6 months (2-3 hours a night each), it would smash Lightroom Classic.

GIMP is a very poor replacement for Photoshop sadly. Terrible UI, slow and just lacking in features. It closed in on Photoshop in the early to mid 00s, but has since distanced itself as Photoshop improves and leaves it in the dust. A sad reality.

 

[paddler4]

As you found, you can turn off copilot and OneDrive. I did.

I used Linux for quite a while. It was the OS used in my university's high-end statistical computing setup (a virtual Gnome desktop). Linux distros have become a lot more user-friendly since, and I've been toying with installing Linux as a dual boot on my computers. (In fact, I have a Mint ISO on a thumb drive.) However, two things are holding me back. First, I depend on the functionality of Photoshop and Lightroom classic, and as you say, they don't run well under Wine. Right now, there isn't anything for Linux that can match them. Even if comparable software appears, I don't want to replicate the scores and scores of hours I spent becoming really comfortable with Adobe software, so I am hoping against hope that it's ported to Linux at some point. And other photo software I use, in particular, my stacking software (Zerene), is also not available for Linux at this time.

The second reason is that starting with any OS, regardless of how polished it is, is a pain in the ass. All sorts of things that are automatic with an OS you know well are suddenly not automatic at all. I went through this years ago, when Macbook Airs were new and I was still using both Windows and Linux. My wife brought home an Air, and I thought it was the niftiest laptop I had ever seen. So I borrowed it when she wasn't using it, and I quickly decided not to switch. I ecided that knowing my way around 2 OSs was enough. It's not that MacOS is hard to use. Quite the contrary. It's just DIFFERENT.

So for the moment, anyway, I'm sticking with Windows 11. Leaving aside installation issues (I bought a computer that had it installed), once you turn off the particularly irritating stuff (start menu recommendations, copilot, various default apps for some file types), I find it a pretty easy OS to use.

 

[West Coast Birder]

I like Linux (Mint is the distro I use as well) a lot for everyday use and have my desktop set up for dual boot with Windows. Integration with motherboard hardware is a bit worse, as things like monitoring fan speed, CPU temperature, etc. are straightforwardly implemented on the Windows side and I haven’t looked into how to enable them on the Linux side. Things like Open Office are more than adequate for office tasks. The only issue, as paddler points out, is photo editing software. That’s really my primary purpose for using my desktop these days as I am retired and don’t need technical software any more, and the free/shareware packages just seem a step down from Lightroom, at least for now.

 

[Paul D. (Cyberex)]

For 17 years I used Windows from v3.11 and year ago I transferred all to my MacBooks and sold my powerful PC, which I builded with all my love.
I working as photo retoucher/editor and Apple Silicon much faster with Lightroom. Now I can't find a reason to regret. All I need I got on Mac, plus speed.

 

[Bobtographer]

You can change a lot of your WIndows 11 install (inc having local account) by using Rufus to make your install USB
Also WindHawk is a great utiltiy for adding/removing options after install

 

[dpastern]

Right now, there isn't anything for Linux that can match them.

True, and that's the frustrating part. It's just like Microsoft won't port Office to Linux. I hope the EU forces Microsoft and Adobe to port. Better yet, move to open source software replacements. Some German local councils have already moved to Linux and not missing MS Windows.

I like Linux (Mint is the distro I use as well) a lot for everyday use and have my desktop set up for dual boot with Windows. Integration with motherboard hardware is a bit worse, as things like monitoring fan speed, CPU temperature, etc. are straightforwardly implemented on the Windows side and I haven’t looked into how to enable them on the Linux side. Things like Open Office are more than adequate for office tasks. The only issue, as paddler points out, is photo editing software. That’s really my primary purpose for using my desktop these days as I am retired and don’t need technical software any more, and the free/shareware packages just seem a step down from Lightroom, at least for now.

Been a while since I used Linux Mint. Flashy, but I found it not particularly stable. But then, I am very fond of Debian.

You want to install lm-sensors and a graphical front end for it.

LibreOffice is a better alternative now to Open Office. Older versions of Open Office were released under the GPL, newer versions under APL. No thank you to the Apache licence. Much like the BSD licence, it allows corporations to take and not give back. Hard pass.

You can change a lot of your WIndows 11 install (inc having local account) by using Rufus to make your install USB
Also WindHawk is a great utiltiy for adding/removing options after install

Yes, but my point is you shouldn't have to. All that garbage should be off by default, with the end user having the option to turn off if *they* want it. And it should all be built into the standard Windows installer option wise. 3rd party tools shouldn't have to be used to do something that Microsoft should have built into their installer.

For 17 years I used Windows from v3.11 and year ago I transferred all to my MacBooks and sold my powerful PC, which I builded with all my love.
I working as photo retoucher/editor and Apple Silicon much faster with Lightroom. Now I can't find a reason to regret. All I need I got on Mac, plus speed.

Yes, but you do pay the exorbitant AHT (Apple Hardware Tax). Hard soldered RAM and hard drives. Certainly not consumer friendly. And when Apple charges 6x the street cost of RAM...

 

[West Coast Birder]

You’re right. I haven’t used Open Office in a long time. I have Libre Office as well. Most of the time, people just share Google Docs and sheets with me. Can’t remember the last time I actually had to open an office app.

I’m not a fan of closed ecosystems either. An iPhone is enough for me.

 

[dpastern]

You’re right. I haven’t used Open Office in a long time. I have Libre Office as well. Most of the time, people just share Google Docs and sheets with me. Can’t remember the last time I actually had to open an office app.

I’m not a fan of closed ecosystems either. An iPhone is enough for me.

Google is a closed system too.

OpenOffice back in the mid 00s pushed ODT and several state US governments went with it as their defacto document standard. That was until Microsoft bribed, oops, I mean, donated large sums of money to kill the competition, including US senators. The same stuff Apple does now vs the right to repair movement I might add.

 

[olykam]

I'm not especially tech savvy, but I became a Linux user by reading and watchinga lot of stuff. Tried on an old machine, so no risk. It worked and I was hooked. Still have a robust, but aging desktop for my Adobe tasks. My wife's 2012 laptop runs Linux Mint. She migrated easily from Windows7 years ago. She would absolutely hate Windows11 after enjoying the simplicity and non intrusivness of Linux.

 

[Bobtographer]

Yes, but my point is you shouldn't have to. All that garbage should be off by default, with the end user having the option to turn off if *they* want it. And it should all be built into the standard Windows installer option wise. 3rd party tools shouldn't have to be used to do something that Microsoft should have built into their installer.

You can do it without the 3rd party. But it just takes the having to manually type code out of the equation..

 

[dpastern]

You can do it without the 3rd party. But it just takes the having to manually type code out of the equation..

Again, you're missing my point. This stuff (copilot, OneDrive, and AI crap) should be off by default, letting the user turn it on by choice, during install, if they so wish. leaving everything at no, and completing the install means nothing to clean up afterwards.

Again, Microsoft's default installer is a shill. Installing and activating stuff without your permission or even telling you. That's a default installer issue and rather insidious.

I'm not touching on the performance of Windows 11 (which 100% degrades over time, unlike other operating systems from my vast experiences).

Again, look at the massive issues with Windows updates in the past 2 months breaking things. Microsoft says it's patched and fixed it and users are still reporting the problem exists and is unfixed. Just look at Britec's reporting on the myriad problems:

Britec09

Britec Tech Tips, Tech reviews, tutorials, PC hardware and do-it-yourself computer building are my favourite things, so that's what I make videos about. - Malware Removal - PC Computer Repair, How to videos and Troubleshooting and Repair videos to help those to help them self's on how to fix...

www.youtube.com

PS Microsoft is happy to give your drive encryption keys to the FBI...even without a warrant.

edit: britec09 has a definite pro Windows bias. The majority of users can easily switch to Linux and get their daily stuff done without issue. Only a small percentage of users, who I'll say are considered power users, have specific requirements that Linux can't meet. And that's NOT Linux' fault, that's the fault of the application developer not porting to Linux.

 

[paddler4]

You want to install lm-sensors and a graphical front end for it

Which goes to show that Linux is also not effortless

 

[dpastern]

Which goes to show that Linux is also not effortless

pretty easy:

apt-get install lm-sensors

done. Try that on Microslop products.

Oh and if I wanna uninstall?

apt-get remove --purge lm-sensors.

Done, fully uninstalled, nothing left. Unlike Microsoft where there's dll files, ini files, folders and the registry left...

 

[Mike_d]

pretty easy:

apt-get install lm-sensors

done. Try that on Microslop products.

Oh and if I wanna uninstall?

apt-get remove --purge lm-sensors.

Done, fully uninstalled, nothing left. Unlike Microsoft where there's dll files, ini files, folders and the registry left...

The average boomer who stares at me like a deer in the headlights when asked to open a browser window and go to a web site ain't typing that.

 

[Mike_d]

Your issues with Win11 are part of the larger trend of enshitification of everything tech. I've been a tech enthusiast for decades and the last few years it's gotten really noticeable. It used to feel like tech companies wanted to make money by making cool **** people wanted to buy. Now it feels like they just want to hook everyone up to the matrix like batteries and drain us.

You said a normal user would have been lost. No, their experience would have gone more smoothly because they'd have just gone with whatever Microsoft "suggested" when first booting their OEM PC. MS account, Bitlocker, Onedrive. And it would work, until they lose their phone with passkey or somehow manage to violate a rule and get their account perma-locked. Then they lose everything. But normies aren't thinking about that. It's people like us who know how computers have always worked, how they should work, and what WE want to them to do that struggle in this totalitarian tech world.

 

[dpastern]

The average boomer who stares at me like a deer in the headlights when asked to open a browser window and go to a web site ain't typing that.

Humans are adaptable and learn. These days, Linux has graphical installers that make it even easier.

Your issues with Win11 are part of the larger trend of enshitification of everything tech. I've been a tech enthusiast for decades and the last few years it's gotten really noticeable. It used to feel like tech companies wanted to make money by making cool **** people wanted to buy. Now it feels like they just want to hook everyone up to the matrix like batteries and drain us.

You said a normal user would have been lost. No, their experience would have gone more smoothly because they'd have just gone with whatever Microsoft "suggested" when first booting their OEM PC. MS account, Bitlocker, Onedrive. And it would work, until they lose their phone with passkey or somehow manage to violate a rule and get their account perma-locked. Then they lose everything. But normies aren't thinking about that. It's people like us who know how computers have always worked, how they should work, and what WE want to them to do that struggle in this totalitarian tech world.

True, people would just do what the installer says and be none the wiser. And that is a big issue.

My view is, like yours, my laptop, my decisions. This intrusion on our rights as users by big tech companies has got to stop.

 

[Lyn2011]

, and what WE want to them to do that struggle in this totalitarian tech world.

This intrusion on our rights as users by big tech companies has got to stop.

Mike and Dave, I totally agree with you. They push us to upgrade Windows everytime, why? We don't need those upgrades, it's only for the money for those companies. The same with smartphones, we must use them but we don't like them. And nobody gives you the right information how to do this and that.