Tomorrow (Dec 14) is the big day - two new Canon lenses to be released!

[West Coast Birder]

RF 24-105mm f/2.8L IS USM Z and RF 200-800mm f/6.3-9 IS USM officially released/becoming available tomorrow!

Who has placed pre-orders for these?

Not sure I am in the market for either, although I will be watching real-world feedback from any of you guys on the 200-800mm.

 

[cwells52]

I'm really intrigued by the 200-800 but have no clue when I'd ever get to use it enough to justify the purchase.

 

[MakisM1]

RF 200-800mm f/6.3-9 IS USM... A white lens, but not an L?

 

[Scott M]

I'm really intrigued by the 200-800 but have no clue when I'd ever get to use it enough to justify the purchase.

Same here. I already have the RF 800mm f/11, which is less expensive and lighter, for those situations where I really want the reach. I also have a RF 100-400.

I did order the third lens that Canon released this month -- the RF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-6.3 IS. It completes my light weight travel kit, going with a R10 and RF-S 18-150mm.

 

[West Coast Birder]

RF 200-800mm f/6.3-9 IS USM... A white lens, but not an L?

Yes, a rare beast. A non-L white.

 

[Levina de Ruijter]

RF 24-105mm f/2.8L IS USM Z

€ 3,659 !!

 

[joayne]

@Levina
$2999 US and weighs 3lbs
Why so expensive for you.. conversions rate would be 2999 US to 2740 EU

 

[2in10]

I ordered the RF 200-800 first day, about 7-8AM, Pacific time, US. I am on the waitlist. Sounds like it could be well into next year before I get the lens.

@Levina
$2999 US and weighs 3lbs
Why so expensive for you.. conversions rate would be 2999 US to 2740 EU

VAT is included in all EU locations. Plus it seems as though there is some kind of premium change for Europe.

 

[West Coast Birder]

I’ve never understood why EU prices are higher. The US is certainly closer to Japan, about 5000 nautical miles from Tokyo to Long Beach versus 11000 nm to Rotterdam, but that can’t explain the difference. And the eurozone is as big population-wise as the US.

 

[Wilt]

I’ve never understood why EU prices are higher. The US is certainly closer to Japan, about 5000 nautical miles from Tokyo to Long Beach versus 11000 nm to Rotterdam, but that can’t explain the difference. And the eurozone is as big population-wise as the US.

VAT?.."a type of tax that is assessed incrementally. It is levied on the price of a product or service at each stage of production, distribution, or sale to the end consumer."

 

[West Coast Birder]

VAT?.."a type of tax that is assessed incrementally. It is levied on the price of a product or service at each stage of production, distribution, or sale to the end consumer."

I think the prices are higher even before the VAT.

 

[Wilt]

I think the prices are higher even before the VAT.

VAT applies at EACH STEP of the process on its way to the consumer, so the price to the consumer has already been elevated at several stages..oo!. The EU minimum VAT adds 15%, but in 2023 Wikipedia reports that the VAT averaged 21% higher price to consumer, with different rates of VAT applying in different EU member states, ranging from 17% in Luxembourg to 27% in Hungary.

 

[Levina de Ruijter]

@Levina
$2999 US and weighs 3lbs
Why so expensive for you.. conversions rate would be 2999 US to 2740 EU

It’s the same with Apple products. Yes, there is taxes, VAT etc. But that still doen’t explain it all. Take eg the Mac Mini M2. Launch price in the US was the same as for the first Mac Mini. In the EU there was an increase of 200 euro.

But 10, 12 years ago e.g, Apple prices would be the same, 1200 dollars = 1200 euro. Then that started to change. I don’t know why. The same with Canon. We simply pay more and have less service and no deals. Black Friday here is laughable. Refurbished is laughable. And I think Canon has one repair center in the whole of the EU and it’s countries away from where I am, so they use other repair centers and all I hear is bad things about them.

 

[SYS]

As primarily into bird photography, I shoot about 99% @800mm for bird portraiture with the 800mm f/11 and the 100-500 for BIF. My go-to lens for travel is the 24-105 f/4L. There are obvious advantages with the new lenses, 200-800 and 24-105 f/2.8, but weighing the pros and cons the pros don't make enough a difference for me to make the switch. One of the reasons why I got rid of my old Sigma 150-600 C was its weight, 4.03 lbs. Compare to this clunk, the 200-800 weighs almost a half lbs heavier. My old travel lens was the 24-70 f/2.8, and I replaced it with the current 24-105 f/4L mainly for the weight difference. The new 24-105 f/2.8 weighs 1.36 lbs heavier at 2.9 lbs compare to the f/4's 1.54 lbs and 1.22 lbs heavier than the old 24-70 f/2.8L. As I'm now past the Medicare eligible age, every ounce of what I carry makes a significant difference. These new lenses would be great for those who don't already own the 800 f/11 and the 24-105 f/4L and don't mind the extra weight.

 

[Capn Jack]

VAT applies at EACH STEP of the process on its way to the consumer, so the price to the consumer has already been elevated at several stages..oo!. The EU minimum VAT adds 15%, but in 2023 Wikipedia reports that the VAT averaged 21% higher price to consumer, with different rates of VAT applying in different EU member states, ranging from 17% in Luxembourg to 27% in Hungary.

VAT?.."a type of tax that is assessed incrementally. It is levied on the price of a product or service at each stage of production, distribution, or sale to the end consumer."

As you imply, the USA doesn't have a VAT. However, how does the VAT in Europe apply to a completely finished product from Japan? Or from the USA?
I don't pretend to be an expert, but this gives some guidance:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32006L0112

See Chapter 4, article 72 which discusses imports.

For the purposes of this Directive, ‘open market value’ shall mean the full amount that, in order to obtain the goods or services in question at that time, a customer at the same marketing stage at which the supply of goods or services takes place, would have to pay, under conditions of fair competition, to a supplier at arm's length within the territory of the Member State in which the supply is subject to tax.

Where no comparable supply of goods or services can be ascertained, ‘open market value’ shall mean the following:

(1)	in respect of goods, an amount that is not less than the purchase price of the goods or of similar goods or, in the absence of a purchase price, the cost price, determined at the time of supply;

(2)	in respect of services, an amount that is not less than the full cost to the taxable person of providing the service.

Essentially, the VAT on imports from outside the EU is a sales tax on the finished good or service. It doesn't apply to each step in the supply chain of manufacture as in Europe. It applies importer to wholesale to store to consumer. It is entirely possible there may be duties in addition to the VAT.

 

[ShipleyNW]

And I just bought a used 160-800mm lens. (AKA a 100-500mm on an R7).

I did order the third lens that Canon released this month -- the RF-S 10-18mm f/4.5-6.3 IS. It completes my light weight travel kit, going with a R10 and RF-S 18-150mm.

I'm waiting on a RF-S equivalent of the EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 lens-- something with that range, sharpness and speed. I still use my EF version with an adapter on my R7 as a walkaround lens. That FL range works out to 24-135mm on a FF box. That's a great range and I need a 24mm equiv regularly.

 

[Lubos-PM]

If I buy a lens outside the EU that costs more than 150 EUR, I will pay import duty of 6.7%. In addition, I will pay VAT of 21%, based on the sum of the price of the lens + duty + shipping costs. So, if I buy lenses in the USA, for example, whose price converted at the exchange rate of the Czech National Bank from USD to CZK is CZK 100,000 and the shipping costs are CZK 5,000, I will pay import duty of CZK 6,700 and VAT of CZK 23,457, so the total cost is CZK 30,157. So the Czech state will make my purchase almost 1/3 more expensive . I think it will be similar in other EU countries.

 

[Scott M]

And I just bought a used 160-800mm lens. (AKA a 100-500mm on an R7).



I'm waiting on a RF-S equivalent of the EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 lens-- something with that range, sharpness and speed. I still use my EF version with an adapter on my R7 as a walkaround lens. That FL range works out to 24-135mm on a FF box. That's a great range and I need a 24mm equiv regularly.

It will be interesting to see if Canon does eventually release something similar to the EF-S 15-85mm. They never did with the EF-M mount -- the closest was the EF-M 15-45mm, which was not nearly long enough for me to use as a walk around lens when I owned a M50. The RF-S 18-150mm works for me most of the time, and the RF-S 10-18mm is small enough that I can put it in a pocket to carry around if I think I may need wider.

 

[Wilt]

As you imply, the USA doesn't have a VAT. However, how does the VAT in Europe apply to a completely finished product from Japan? Or from the USA?
I don't pretend to be an expert, but this gives some guidance:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/ALL/?uri=CELEX:32006L0112

See Chapter 4, article 72 which discusses imports.


Essentially, the VAT on imports from outside the EU is a sales tax on the finished good or service. It doesn't apply to each step in the supply chain of manufacture as in Europe. It applies importer to wholesale to store to consumer. It is entirely possible there may be duties in addition to the VAT.

I specifically was addressing the question posed by West Coast Birder in Post 9, "I’ve never understood why EU prices (to consumers in the EU) are higher. "I answered in the context of his question.

What gets imported into EU from outside EU are taxed, as an effort to keep the system fair for EU producers so that they can compete on equal terms on the European market with suppliers situated outside the EU.

I recall buying a new Olympus OM-1n body from the Comet store in London in 1981, as my OM-1MD body had jammed during the trip. The exchange rate from Pounds to USD was especially good due to a devalued Pound, so after VAT refund the body only cost me net US$120!

 

[Wilt]

It’s the same with Apple products. Yes, there is taxes, VAT etc. But that still doen’t explain it all. Take eg the Mac Mini M2. Launch price in the US was the same as for the first Mac Mini. In the EU there was an increase of 200 euro.

But 10, 12 years ago e.g, Apple prices would be the same, 1200 dollars = 1200 euro. Then that started to change. I don’t know why. The same with Canon. We simply pay more and have less service and no deals. Black Friday here is laughable. Refurbished is laughable. And I think Canon has one repair center in the whole of the EU and it’s countries away from where I am, so they use other repair centers and all I hear is bad things about them.

10-12 years ago, the monetary exchange between Euro and USD was 1 USD to EUR = 0.7576, so 'same price' to the consumer (without VAT uplift) in both places would have meant 1200 USD = 909 Euro
The 1200 Euro price you mention resulted from the addition of import tax, at about 24%, to arrive at 1200 Euro. 909 Euro pre-tax+ 297 Euro import tax = 1200 Euro price to consumer.
So, for a buyer from US when making a purchase from a retailer who did not participate in VAT refund for tourists, the product would be 24% more expensive to buy in EU.