The Most Controversial Thread on FoP

[Wilt]

I've taken a little dip back into western news recently, and it does seem that the tide is turning against the thin-skinned and fragile among us who, for example, seem to burst into tears at (and I can't believe this is real) someone talking to a 3rd-party, and using (and I've no idea how this is even possible) the wrong personal-pronoun when referring to said person.

My wife and I had a conversation this morning, about how the American (US) is so overly conscious of being 'politically correct', and that terminology once considered appropriate for 'polite conversation' is now frowned upon...words change meaning and go from 'appropriate' to 'inappropriate', making it harder for those outside of involvement in that society as an everyday occurrence to 'speak properly'.
My family came to US over 170 years ago, from Asia. When I was a child, to be called 'Oriental' was politically and socially the right thing, compared to some very racist alternatives. Yet "Oriental' is now politically incorrect to use, and the admonition has the force of law: President Obama signed a bill prohibiting use of the term in all federal documents! Why?...geographic origin is not a slur.
To quote an author of an editorial in the LA Times in 2016, who herself is of Asian background,

"I see self-righteous, fragile egos eager to find offense where none is intended...A funny thing I noticed is that my Caucasian (dare I say Occidental?) colleagues, not my Asian colleagues, are most eager to remove Oriental from public discourse. I suppose they’re busy shouldering their burden of guilt. Margaret Cho said it best: “White people like to tell Asians how to feel about race because they’re too scared to tell black people.”"​

 

[gjl711]

I understand what your saying, but there is no way to discuss this without delving into politics. So let say we don't go there. There is no goodness once we head down that path.

 

[Skygod44]

Or, if I may take the liberty, JJ, of altering just the punctuation.

//..."politics". ...//There, is no goodness...//

QED

 

[MakisM1]

OMG! I am so woefully behind the times!... 20 minutes ago, I thought that "Oriental" was politically correct istead of Chinese, Filipino etc.

So I looked it up!

Nope... oriental is derogatory...

So I asked Google what is appropriate in place of 'oriental' and the Google answer was...

"Asian American"

Right!... So Confucius is now Asian American...



I am not so sure about Xi Jinping...

 

[Bikes Camera More]

I have recently 'stumbled' across this thread. Views to date have been interesting.

Etymology is a fascinating subject.

The thread recalls to me an early version of Microsoft Word. Word 2 from recollection, over 25 years ago. There was the beginnings of a grammar checker. One instance I recall was the use of the word 'Prince', which the grammar checker flagged as 'too gender specific'. Oh, how far we have progressed in 25 years! No offence (or should that be offense?) intended.

Language is indeed rich and varied. A lot of my clients do not enjoy English as their first language; I still have to ensure that they understand what I am saying, written or verbally, and not make any assumptions.

 

[cdifoto]

I have recently 'stumbled' across this thread. Views to date have been interesting.

Etymology is a fascinating subject.

The thread recalls to me an early version of Microsoft Word. Word 2 from recollection, over 25 years ago. There was the beginnings of a grammar checker. One instance I recall was the use of the word 'Prince', which the grammar checker flagged as 'too gender specific'. Oh, how far we have progressed in 25 years! No offence (or should that be offense?) intended.

Language is indeed rich and varied. A lot of my clients do not enjoy English as their first language; I still have to ensure that they understand what I am saying, written or verbally, and not make any assumptions.

You should have wrote "The Artist Formerly Known As" or simply and it would not have been gender specific.

 

[Skygod44]

I have recently 'stumbled' across this thread. Views to date have been interesting.

Hey David
Glad to see you here, though it's best not to need to come here!

Etymology is a fascinating subject.

It certainly is.
And what's also fascinating is how, shall I just say "the powerful among us", are trying to rearrange what we know is correct, etymologically speaking, in order to alter, en masse, how we can describe and therefore 'understand' the world around us, and our status within it.

...// One instance I recall was the use of the word 'Prince', which the grammar checker flagged as 'too gender specific'.

That's remarkable

Oh, how far we have progressed in 25 years! No offence (or should that be offense?) intended.

Here in "The East", certainly in part due to how the languages are constructed, the above grammar checker wouldn't make sense.

...// A lot of my clients do not enjoy English as their first language;

Same for me, although the statistic would be "zero" of my clients enjoy English as a first language.

...// not make any assumptions.

And that's it, in a nutshell.
And it reminds me of Lev's points, earlier on.

It's true that I am a native English speaker, but I don't speak it every day...
What's "politically correct" means virtually nothing to me.
Nuance is often lost on me.
And hyper-sensitive over-reaction seems to be increasing "over there", from what I can gather.

Which simply can't last, due to the devastating effect it has, when people are faced with real problems.

Cheers for now,
Simon

 

[Bikes Camera More]

...

Same for me, although the statistic would be "zero" of my clients enjoy English as a first language.

And that's it, in a nutshell.
And it reminds me of Lev's points, earlier on.

It's true that I am a native English speaker, but I don't speak it every day...
What's "politically correct" means virtually nothing to me.
Nuance is often lost on me.
And hyper-sensitive over-reaction seems to be increasing "over there", from what I can gather.

Which simply can't last, due to the devastating effect it has, when people are faced with real problems.

Cheers for now,
Simon

There are many instances when a statement is made for the purposes of court proceedings where the solicitor has prepared a statement, in English, for someone whose native language is not, and the case falls apart for just that reason because the statement is not understood by the person signing it. The Civil Procedure Rules make specific provisions in relation to such statements, yet some solicitors 'don't get it'!

This is a real problem, but avoidable if one takes the time to understand beyond your own perspective.

That can carry across in many world issues, too. We as a society need to learn to be more inclusive, and how to coexist with those with differing positions.

 

[Skygod44]

There are many instances when a statement is made for the purposes of court proceedings where the solicitor has prepared a statement, in English, for someone whose native language is not, and the case falls apart for just that reason because the statement is not understood by the person signing it. The Civil Procedure Rules make specific provisions in relation to such statements, yet some solicitors 'don't get it'!

This is a real problem, but avoidable if one takes the time to understand beyond your own perspective.

That can carry across in many world issues, too. We as a society need to learn to be more inclusive, and how to coexist with those with differing positions.

Well said, sir

 

[gjl711]

I feel this thread trending to the land of nono... (Rule #2) No one near the line yet but y'all are going in that direction. All it's going to take is one post to light it up. Lets bet back to the hard work of sillyness.

 

[Lubos-PM]

I have never learned English; I understand it to some extent passively. When I have to speak, I can order another beer, say thank you, I know a few more words and phrases, but that's about it. When I write in English, I use a translator. I write the text in Czech, DeepL translates it into English, and then I have it translated back into Czech by the translator. If I think there's a mistake, I edit my original Czech text. I repeat this process until I believe that what I wrote in English is what I meant in Czech. However, I'm never sure if someone who truly knows English will understand exactly what I meant. And then sometimes I accidentally post the original Czech text instead of the English one - for that I apologize.

Another problem I have is that I'm not familiar with the realities of English-speaking countries. For example I don't know popular quotes from movies, and some abbreviations are all Greek to me (in Czech we say To je pro mě španělská vesnice = It is a Spanish village for me - but here, anyone who speaks English would have no idea what a Spanish village has to do with it). So please don't use abbreviations if possible, or yes, but then write the individual words in brackets and I might understand what is behind the abbreviation .

 

[gjl711]

Well, Lubos, that explains why your posts are in near perfect English, better than most first language typers. <- see, right there. No such word ad typers.

 

[Bikes Camera More]

I have never learned English; I understand it to some extent passively. When I have to speak, I can order another beer, say thank you, but that's about it. When I write in English, I use a translator. I write the text in Czech, DeepL translates it into English, and then I have it translated back into Czech by the translator. If I think there's a mistake, I edit my original Czech text. I repeat this process until I believe that what I wrote in English is what I meant in Czech. However, I'm never sure if someone who truly knows English will understand exactly what I meant. And then sometimes I accidentally post the original Czech text instead of the English one - for that I apologize.

Another problem I have is that I'm not familiar with the realities of English-speaking countries. For example I don't know popular quotes from movies, and some abbreviations are all Greek to me (in Czech we say To je pro mě španělská vesnice = It is a Spanish village for me - but here, anyone who speaks English would have no idea what a Spanish village has to do with it). So please don't use abbreviations if possible, or yes, but then write the individual words in brackets and I might understand what is behind the abbreviation .

Oh, don't you just love translator apps! They can be quite 'entertaining' .

As for "Another problem I have is that I'm not familiar with the realities of English-speaking countries..." I'm not convinced that English speaking countries are sufficiently familiar. After all, English English is so often different to US English, or Australian English. Then, even within those countries there is frequently a difference from north to south, east or west.

We just need to accept those regional variations and make allowances for linguistic misunderstandings. That's quite different to inappropriate use of language to offend.

As for misuse of apostrophe's... well, there's no excuse

 

[Levina de Ruijter]

As for misuse of apostrophe's... well, there's no excuse

As there is none for using ect. instead of etc!

What on earth do people think ect is an abbreviation of?!!

 

[Levina de Ruijter]

And I'm not even talking about "complimentary" when clearly "complementary" is meant.

"I like the complimentary colours in this shot" and I'm thinking "Are the colours saying things like "Oh, Red, you look lovely today" and Red saying "Oh Blue, I was just thinking how lovely you look today."

 

[Skygod44]

Well golly-gosh

I feel this thread trending to the land of nono... (Rule #2) No one near the line yet but y'all are going in that direction. All it's going to take is one post to light it up. Lets bet back to the hard work of sillyness.

In case anyone has forgotten rule #2

(Even though they're not numbered...
)
Rule #2 says:

Quote/
No political, religious, nationalistic, harassing posts, threatening posts, posts that contain racism, sexism or ageism, profanity, personal attacks, or unwanted criticism allowed. (The don’t be an a-hole rule)
//Unquote

OK everyone?

The thread title is:
"The Most Controversial Thread on FoP".
And it is located in the Lounge.

But that doesn't mean, and I want to make this perfectly clear, it doesn't mean that rules can be broken, even if someone does say "Full-frame is a sales gimmick".

"And now for something completely different."

 

[Bikes Camera More]

As there is none for using ect. instead of etc!

What on earth do people think ect is an abbreviation of?!!

According to a Bing search (NOT Google!)...

Electroconvulsive therapy (ECT for short)

...but I know exactly what you mean Levina. Some do go out of their ways to 'slip up'. One that always made me smile, and at the same time mildly irritated, was the word 'Certificate'. You may be amazed at just how many 'complicated' the word to 'sustificate'. I'm sure there are many other examples, too (or as some would say 'to').

 

[Skygod44]

And I'm not even talking about "complimentary" when clearly "complementary" is meant.

"I like the complimentary colours in this shot" and I'm thinking "Are the colours saying things like "Oh, Red, you look lovely today" and Red saying "Oh Blue, I was just thinking how lovely you look today."

You crack me up, Lev.
You really do

 

[Levina de Ruijter]

and I want to make this perfectly clear

 

[Skygod44]

I really want to assume you got the reference...

If so, up you go, higher and higher in my opinion

If not....
Oh dear