The Most Controversial Thread on FoP

[Skygod44]

First I'll link to the Forum Rules:

https://focus-on-photography-forum.net/threads/forum-rules.22/

Second:
Friends, mods, Romans, countrymen (and women!), lend me your ears for a moment.

This is a personal comment which I hope everyone can 'more or less' move forwards with, thus improving the overall nature of this wonderful forum.
To continue, please note this paragraph from the rules:

"Be aware that this is a multi-cultural forum and English is a second or third language for many members. Pointing out grammatical mistakes is frowned upon."

I'm a London Brit by birth, but I've been in Japan so long, that I'm unaware of many cultural trends, popular phrases, technical advancements, nuanced wording, commonly-known TV/movie references, etc. which are "normal" to western English speakers.

Most of my day, I converse in Japanese.

This isn't to not say that that does not make The English hasn't it my mother-tongue!!!
(that wording was a joke, for anyone still reading )
But within FoP, I use waaaaaaaaaaaay more written English than anywhere else, in my daily life.

Recently, the world has been in the grip of a lot of trouble which I have no desire to expand on - and it's against the rules!
But one outcome has been the realisation that many "experts" are keen to keep their paymasters happy, and so the status of "expert" has taken a big hit.

Within two threads, I've come across situations where I'm sure my wording and thoughts about various things have been taken the wrong way.
Maybe my knowledge is in fact, "wrong"?
Or just out-of-date?
Or based on expert knowledge I trust, which is unbeknownst to the folks in here?
Perhaps, cultural differences came into play?
It could be these, or a million other reasons...

Now, I'm not famous for doing a tip-toe around a subject just because someone's ego is bruised, or their pride-balloon popped.
However, when I'm definitely wrong, I'll say "I'm wrong"

On a more positive note, here in my adopted home city, I am famous for wanting the best for eveyone, and from everyone, including me.

So, I'm asking for forgiveness from anyone I have already, or will in the future offend by using words badly, thinking differently, or by relying on "foreign" information.

To the mods & staff:
Many people are on edge at the moment, due to so many uncertainties in the world.
Venting some of that concern online has become, I think, prevelent. And is inevitable.
I would say that things are tougher now, than we ever imagined back in the early days on POTN.

And so, dear mods / staff:
i) can we have some kind of agreed upon signal or emoji to go next to comments which are relevent, but simultaneously might trigger some people?
- I would suggest something like this -->
ii) is it also possible to agree on some kind of comment, to show that a conversation is turning bad, and so the participants want to bow out before tensions build?
- From one of these, perhaps? --> //out gracefully// or //moving on// or //going AWOL//

This is so that we can FULLY ENJOY FoP, while maintaining worldwide friendships amongst this amazing photo community you've created out of thin air.
While at the same time, not ignoring the fact that everyone is entitled to an opinion, and that that opinion may be based on experiences/knowledge from many cultures.

Peace & Love to all,
Simon

PS: The thread title is exactly because I don't want this to be controversial

 

[Joeseph]

has anyone seen my cat?

 

[cdifoto]

First I'll link to the Forum Rules:

https://focus-on-photography-forum.net/threads/forum-rules.22/

Second:
Friends, mods, Romans, countrymen (and women!), lend me your ears for a moment.

This is a personal comment which I hope everyone can 'more or less' move forwards with, thus improving the overall nature of this wonderful forum.
To continue, please note this paragraph from the rules:

"Be aware that this is a multi-cultural forum and English is a second or third language for many members. Pointing out grammatical mistakes is frowned upon."

I'm a London Brit by birth, but I've been in Japan so long, that I'm unaware of many cultural trends, popular phrases, technical advancements, nuanced wording, commonly-known TV/movie references, etc. which are "normal" to western English speakers.

Most of my day, I converse in Japanese.

This isn't to not say that that does not make The English hasn't it my mother-tongue!!!
(that wording was a joke, for anyone still reading )
But within FoP, I use waaaaaaaaaaaay more written English than anywhere else, in my daily life.

Recently, the world has been in the grip of a lot of trouble which I have no desire to expand on - and it's against the rules!
But one outcome has been the realisation that many "experts" are keen to keep their paymasters happy, and so the status of "expert" has taken a big hit.

Within two threads, I've come across situations where I'm sure my wording and thoughts about various things have been taken the wrong way.
Maybe my knowledge is in fact, "wrong"?
Or just out-of-date?
Or based on expert knowledge I trust, which is unbeknownst to the folks in here?
Perhaps, cultural differences came into play?
It could be these, or a million other reasons...

Now, I'm not famous for doing a tip-toe around a subject just because someone's ego is bruised, or their pride-balloon popped.
However, when I'm definitely wrong, I'll say "I'm wrong"

On a more positive note, here in my adopted home city, I am famous for wanting the best for eveyone, and from everyone, including me.

So, I'm asking for forgiveness from anyone I have already, or will in the future offend by using words badly, thinking differently, or by relying on "foreign" information.

To the mods & staff:
Many people are on edge at the moment, due to so many uncertainties in the world.
Venting some of that concern online has become, I think, prevelent. And is inevitable.
I would say that things are tougher now, than we ever imagined back in the early days on POTN.

And so, dear mods / staff:
i) can we have some kind of agreed upon signal or emoji to go next to comments which are relevent, but simultaneously might trigger some people?
- I would suggest something like this -->
ii) is it also possible to agree on some kind of comment, to show that a conversation is turning bad, and so the participants want to bow out before tensions build?
- From one of these, perhaps? --> //out gracefully// or //moving on// or //going AWOL//

This is so that we can FULLY ENJOY FoP, while maintaining worldwide friendships amongst this amazing photo community you've created out of thin air.
While at the same time, not ignoring the fact that everyone is entitled to an opinion, and that that opinion may be based on experiences/knowledge from many cultures.

Peace & Love to all,
Simon

PS: The thread title is exactly because I don't want this to be controversial

TLDR.

 

[cdifoto]

has anyone seen my cat?

Press the button on the fob to make the horn honk and lights flash.

Oh. Wait. Cat. Not car.

Okay try it anyway.

 

[Levina de Ruijter]

And so, dear mods / staff:
i) can we have some kind of agreed upon signal or emoji to go next to comments which are relevent, but simultaneously might trigger some people?
- I would suggest something like this -->
ii) is it also possible to agree on some kind of comment, to show that a conversation is turning bad, and so the participants want to bow out before tensions build?
- From one of these, perhaps? --> //out gracefully// or //moving on// or //going AWOL//

Simon, the problem is that there is no way to predict what will trigger people. A thread can derail because one word by someone can be taken the wrong way by somebody else in a conversation about the most innocent of topics. You just never know.

The best we can do is hope for people to understand the limits of the written word, to not engage in pissing contests but to walk away when things get heated and in general, to not be unkind to others.

Our members come from all over the world and that means different cultures, different backgrounds, and many people for whom English is a second or third language. It’s a second language for me too and although I speak and write it well, I too miss certain nuances sometimes that a native speaker would not miss. That fact alone can cause misunderstandings. I think that when a community is as divers as we are, we need that extra bit of understanding for one another. So before you get mad, first ask (politely!) if they actually said what you think they said.

We should always realise that most people have no intention to willfully hurt or insult others. But when a situation does develop, count to 10, walk away and/or report it. Don’t fight on the board.

tl;dr
Be kind.

 

[Levina de Ruijter]

Simon, I just learned about the earthquake in Japan. I don’t know where you are exactly, but I hope wholeheartedly that you and yours are all right.

 

[Skygod44]

Simon, the problem is that there is no way to predict what will trigger people. The most innocent of topics can derail because one word by someone can be taken the wrong way by somebody else in a conversation about the most innocent of topics. You just never know.

The best we can do is hope for people to understand the limits of the written word, to not engage in pissing contests but to walk away when things get heated and in general, to not be unkind to others.

Our members come from all over the world and that means different cultures, different backgrounds, and many people for whom English is a second or third language. It’s a second language for me too and although I speak and write it well, I too miss certain nuances sometimes that a native speaker would not miss. That fact alone can cause misunderstandings. I think that when a community is as divers as we are, we need that extra bit of understanding for one another. So before you get mad, first ask (politely!) if they actually said what you think they said.

We should always realise that most people have no intention to willfully hurt or insult others. But when a situation does develop, count to 10, walk away and/or report it. Don’t fight on the board.

tl;dr
Be kind.

Fully understand, Lev.


As the days have gone by, I now think that "request ii" could be useful to anyone who wants to use it.

Or, just use the thread to link to an apology for when anyone else gets overly worked up.

Anyway, do with it as you like

Oh, and thanks very much for asking about the earthquake and tsunami.

It's hitting the coast about 1,000km north, mostly on the "main island" of Honshū.

I'm in southern Kyushu, so we didn't even feel a shake.

But we'll know about the full effect, tomorrow morning.

 

[Levina de Ruijter]

Fully understand, Lev.


As the days have gone by, I now think that "request ii" could be useful to anyone who wants to use it.

Or, just use the thread to link to an apology for when anyone else gets overly worked up.

Anyway, do with it as you like

Oh, and thanks very much for asking about the earthquake and tsunami.

It's hitting the coast about 1,000km north, mostly on the "main island" of Honshū.

I'm in southern Kyushu, so we didn't even feel a shake.

But we'll know about the full effect, tomorrow morning.

It’s good to know you are nowhere near the epicentre.

As for this thread and pointing towards it should the need occur, I might just do that…

 

[gjl711]

Glad your fine and I hope all others are as well. One point I'd like to add to Levina's post, and that's slang. Even native English speakers cannot agree so you toss that into the mix and it's yet another source of confusion. I work with Britts, my BIL is Bahamian, my SO is Hawaiian, toss in a few from Oz and you think we all speak different languages. Heaven forbid someone slips in a bit of pidgin just to confuse even more.

 

[gjl711]

And now back to our regular scheduled madness, what the heck is TLDR? Is it anything like TLTR?

 

[Skygod44]

It’s good to know you are nowhere near the epicentre.

As for this thread and pointing towards it should the need occur, I might just do that…

Thanks again Lev & JJ, too
And my thoughts are for the people up north; being told to evacuate and head to high ground due to a 5m high tsunami, on New Year's Day can't be anyone's "Great start to 2024".


As to the thread, as I pointed out within the initial diatribe, people have been through a lot in the last 4 years.

Having somewhere to share, shall we say "a mini vent at the world" could be very healthy.
Or a complete nightmare.

By all means, change it how you think best.

Though my apology stands

 

[Levina de Ruijter]

And my thoughts are for the people up north; being told to evacuate and head to high ground due to a 5m high tsunami, on New Year's Day can't be anyone's "Great start to 2024".

No, it’s a devastatingly bad way to start the new year. It’s so sad.

 

[Levina de Ruijter]

By all means, change it how you think best.

There’s no need to change anything, Simon.

 

[Skygod44]

There’s no need to change anything, Simon.

Missus Skygod mk3 wouldn't agree with you there

 

[Joeseph]

Press the button on the fob to make the horn honk and lights flash.

Oh. Wait. Cat. Not car.

Okay try it anyway.

just remembered I don't have a cat.

 

[Tom Reichner]

I am a native speaker of English, and yet sometimes I still have folks grossly misinterpreting what I type in forum posts. This is because I normally say exactly what I mean, according to the actual, literal definition of the words I use. I do not imply things. Yet, often, people jump to a conclusion about what I meant, or what attitude laid behind my words.

The only times I ever "got in trouble" on POTN was when people thought that I meant things that I did not actually write. They inferred that my words meant something more, or different, than their actual literal meaning. But it is wrong for anyone to think that, because I do not write that way.

So there is no need for anyone to infer that any snarkiness lies behind what I say because my words are meant to mean only what their literal dictionary meanings say they mean. If I am ever snarky, my snarkiness will not lie behind anything - it will be right there in the open, expressed with blunt words - I won't disguise or soften my critical feelings behind shadowy connotations or double meanings that can be subjective in nature. It is better to just be totally honest and express what I truly feel in a direct manner. So, unless I am being obviously critical in a very blunt, outright fashion, then I do not mean anything critical .... so please, folks, don't (mis)interpret my words.

 

[Wilt]

I am a native speaker of English, and yet sometimes I still have folks grossly misinterpreting what I type in forum posts. This is because I normally say exactly what I mean, according to the actual, literal definition of the words I use. I do not imply things. Yet, often, people jump to a conclusion about what I meant, or what attitude laid behind my words.

The only times I ever "got in trouble" on POTN was when people thought that I meant things that I did not actually write. They inferred that my words meant something more, or different, than their actual literal meaning. But it is wrong for anyone to think that, because I do not write that way.

So there is no need for anyone to infer that any snarkiness lies behind what I say because my words are meant to mean only what their literal dictionary meanings say they mean. If I am ever snarky, my snarkiness will not lie behind anything - it will be right there in the open, expressed with blunt words - I won't disguise or soften my critical feelings behind shadowy connotations or double meanings that can be subjective in nature. It is better to just be totally honest and express what I truly feel in a direct manner. So, unless I am being obviously critical in a very blunt, outright fashion, then I do not mean anything critical .... so please, folks, don't (mis)interpret my words.

Well put. Your comments reflect the intention behind my posts as well. I try not to have any 'emotion' behind my posts, and state what I believe/know to be factual statements of reality. I try not to be judgemental about persons, but rather only 'debate' factual errors. Judge facts, not people...the objectively verifiable, not the subjective. Yet keep in mind that the 'objectively verifiable' can be wrong...look at how long the world thought that things in the Universe (other than our moon) orbitted the Earth, and they laughed at Copernicus.

 

[gjl711]

... Yet keep in mind that the 'objectively verifiable' can be wrong...look at how long the world thought that things in the Universe (other than our moon) orbitted the Earth, and they laughed at Copernicus.

And as we now know, they were wrong again, the moon does not orbit the earth but corkscrews it's way around the earth as it corkscrews it's way around the sun as we all corckscrew our way around the universe. It's all a matter of relativity..

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Skygod44]

@Tom Reichner and @Wilt
Thanks so much for adding to the thread.

I think you're both onto something vitally important here, regarding, "I write, using what the definition of a word actually means".
But recently, not only do many people not know the dictionary definitions of words, but also nuanced meanings have taken on a power unknown in the history of the English language, I think.
Although, I could be wrong.
(But "facts" Simon...
...stick to the "facts"!!!)

I've taken a little dip back into western news recently, and it does seem that the tide is turning against the thin-skinned and fragile among us who, for example, seem to burst into tears at (and I can't belive this is real) someone talking to a 3rd-party, and using (and I've no idea how this is even possible) the wrong personal-pronoun when referring to said person.

I, like you Tom, never deliberately aim to offend people. But as Levina pointed out:

A thread can derail because one word by someone can be taken the wrong way by somebody else in a conversation about the most innocent of topics. You just never know.

Thus, I'm happy for this thread to be used-and-abused in order that FoP members make peace.
It's up to the mods to decide how much "peacemaking" they'll tolerate, but that's part of my hope - please, dear mods, tolerate plenty
Regards for now,
Simon

 

[sparker1]

I noticed several spelling/grammatical errors in the posts above, but decided not to point them out. Just saying...