Am I the only one disappointed in the "post your" trend that has taken over these forums?

[the durkarian]

Are there times that I can give feedback, sure but what's the point...

Because it is a very important part of the learning process. Whereas "Likes" are utterly meaningless.

 

[West Coast Birder]

Interesting. I'm new here, but a refugee from Dgrin, not POTN. The Dgrin etiquette was quite different--unless the OP specifically requested that others share similar themed pics, it was considered rude to post another pic in someone's thread. We called it hijacking, and mods would sometimes move the offending pic into its own, new thread and threaten the interloper with fire, brimstone and banning. I don't think either approach is obviously superior; it's more a matter of what you are used to. Perhaps we could add a flag in the profile similar to the edit:y/n flag for thread sharing. Or is that overly complicating matters?

Richard, thanks for sharing your views from the Dgrin perspective. I feel that the posting ethos here isn't too much different from what you describe.

We do have a greater tendency to have these collective "Share your xxxx" threads here at FoP, and it is a carryover from our old POTN forum where these threads that are tied with some common theme proliferated. The other extreme, in my experience, is Fred Miranda, where I used to post sporadically and am still a (dormant) member. At FM, there were almost no composite threads. In the Canon section, there was a "Share your year XXXX Canon images" thread that would get populated over time, but in the Photo sharing section, there strictly would be individual threads started by each poster with their own work. To some extent, I feel that the FM style tends to sustain clique-y behavior, where if you are a newcomer, you may not get too many views for your thread. Posting in a composite thread, on the other hand, can guarantee that your image will be seen and hopefully be commented on or reacted to, but the downside of course is that in a day or so, it would have disappeared into the back pages.

I feel like we have a good mix of both approaches. We have the composite threads where it makes sense to post if you have an individual photo that you want to share but don't want to go through the trouble of creating a new thread for it. I think that model fits most of the traffic on the forum and, perhaps, most of the way we (at least the hobbyists) shoot every day. On the other hand, we also have threads where there is some theme that is specific to the thread starter, like a trip somewhere, or a photographic project. For example, over the last few weeks, I have been engaged in a project to shoot all the outdoor art on the UCSB campus. It was a fun project and a great learning experience, as I had to go and read up on the artists and the motivation for their work, but at the end, I was left with over a dozen photographs that wouldn't make sense to place in a composite thread. So, I chose to start my own thread (can be found here). The downside is that there is noticeably less engagement on it - perhaps lots of people have seen it and don't care for it (which could also be true ), or people simply grativate towards their favorite composite threads and don't see the new individual threads in the process.

The other point you make is about "hijacking" threads. Once again, I think the general etiquette is that for threads that are titled "Share your ..." or "Show your ....," it is clear that the thread starter wants others to show their work as well. But for individual threads like my UCSB art thread, it is clear that it is a personal project I want to share but unless I explicitly asked others to also share their own photos of the same topic, it would be bad form to do so. There can be occasional misunderstandings but in my experience, the difference has been fairly self-evident and has not led to many conflicts.

 

[MSH411]

Because it is a very important part of the learning process. Whereas "Likes" are utterly meaningless.

But yet your profile says no to Image editing which is a very import component of feedback. Post production is an important element of photography whether it is in a darkroom or through software . Images that are missing range, exposure, composition or balance can be better discussed if an example is provided through post production if someone is offering feedback. To state no in your profile is essentially saying no to feedback, hence the statement "what is the point".

 

[West Coast Birder]

I always interpreted the "No to image editing" to mean No to Unsolicited Editing. I feel that people (maybe not all but many) would be amenable to sharing their file if someone else is making some point about editing or PP or whatever. Of course, there are those who are simply not interested in feedback and merely want to use the forum to share/display their work and that's fine as well. But many of us do want to learn and improve our craft, so personally, if someone were to ask me to share an image so that they could demonstrate something that I could learn from, I would be more than willing even though my profile says No Image Editing.

 

[paddler4]

Interesting. I'm new here, but a refugee from Dgrin, not POTN. The Dgrin etiquette was quite different--unless the OP specifically requested that others share similar themed pics, it was considered rude to post another pic in someone's thread. We called it hijacking, and mods would sometimes move the offending pic into its own, new thread and threaten the interloper with fire, brimstone and banning. I don't think either approach is obviously superior; it's more a matter of what you are used to. Perhaps we could add a flag in the profile similar to the edit:y/n flag for thread sharing. Or is that overly complicating matters?

I think this thread has mixed two different issues. The OP was about the lack of critiques, I think. For example, I do a lot of flower photography, and there is a forum here for that. However, it's very rare for people to offer critiques of the posted images. You post your flower, and I post mine. There's nothing wrong with that, but it serves a different purpose from forums where people offer critiques and suggestions.

The other issue is about posting your own photos in a thread that is about someone else's image, not just about flowers or whatever. That's not always hijacking. I participate in another forum where people often post edits of the OP's image (if the OP is OK with that) and on rare occasions post an image of their own, not to hijack the thread, but to illustrate a point about the OP's image. For example, on that forum, someone recently posted an image of a small pool on an interesting rock surface. I commented that for my taste, that's a type of image for which some exaggeration of texture and color may be helpful. I posted one of mine simply to illustrate what I meant. The thread was not hijacked.

The bottom line is that different people want different things from forums. It seems like most people here prefer the model where there is a long thread about flowers or guns, and people just post their own rather than commenting others (apart from likes). Nothing wrong with that at all, but it's not what I look for, and I very rarely post any images here. I'd rather post them where I can get serious feedback and, on occasion, technical suggestions about how to do better. Different strokes.

 

[OhLook]

It seems like most people here prefer the model where there is a long thread about flowers or guns, and people just post their own rather than commenting others (apart from likes). Nothing wrong with that at all, but it's not what I look for, and I very rarely post any images here. I'd rather post them where I can get serious feedback and, on occasion, technical suggestions about how to do better.

Many times, I have an impulse to say "I like your image overall, but the [focus, composition, irrelevant background clutter, whatever] detracts from it" or "I'd have given this a Like but for the . . ." and I just pass by because the person hasn't asked for comments. Unsolicited criticism is often unwelcome.

 

[Archibald]

Many times, I have an impulse to say "I like your image overall, but the [focus, composition, irrelevant background clutter, whatever] detracts from it" or "I'd have given this a Like but for the . . ." and I just pass by because the person hasn't asked for comments. Unsolicited criticism is often unwelcome.

So true. And a mild suggestion can trigger an outburst of extreme anger, as though criticism of criticism is fine.

 

[Mr Roboto]

I would like to see members photos of things and comment on them, etc. However, going to say the Nature & Landscape forums all you see is just the entire form filled with:

"Post your seascapes."
"Post your cloud photos"
"Post your best sunrise"
"Post your best sunset"

On and on, ad nauseum. It's annoying that they just fill up the view and you don't see hardly any posts from members posting their specific photo. It's all glommed into these posts so you can't really discuss a specific photo easily. Why is this even necessary to do?

If you are annoyed seeing so many of these consolidated sub-categories fill up the page, can you imagine if everyone created separate posts of every individual image? The Nature & Landscape category alone would have hundreds of pages instead of the current 12.

It is really sad that the questions (and responses) with how-to or best-practices topics are virtually non-existent in the list of new posts each day. Just before I found this thread, that exact thought came to mind as I glanced down the list of 'post your (endless list of subjects/themes)'.
Some say that kind of post has disappeared everywhere. It may be true that the total volume of such posts is down, with many simply watching YouTube, etc., but I frequent other forums on photography to know that FOP is sorely devoid of such discussion, while such discussion does persist elsewhere. It has indeed gotten out of hand on FOP. Just now I counted 63 posts before encountering ONE that was not 'photo of (endless list of subjects/themes/taken with camera X)..."Is something like the RF 70-150mm f/2L USM actually coming?" which is purely uninformed speculation in view of the fact that product launches that are pre-announced have their delays which no one outside the company has any insight into the rationale behind such decisions. FOP is filled with "I need to show off my pictures"; I had to read down almost 120 threads before I found "What can cause a photo to shutter/stutter a bit when I move it around on-screen", which had any opportunity for meaningful discussion...there is a sad lack of information exchange. Show off mostly.

I don't look for nor expect a great deal of technical information to be exchanged in many sections (especially the Photo Sharing & DIscussion and Lens Sample Archive forums). When I see threads with titles that start with "Post your...", "Show us your...", "Show me...", and "Shots that..." I expect to see mostly images because that is what was asked. People who post in those threads are not "showing off", they are participating by invitation. Any image posted anywhere (except those which were posted asking for help to improve it) could be construed as "showing off" if you think about it.

I do agree that this site often has very low activity - especially dealing with the technical aspects of photography and general banter among the members. But the forum to which the OP was referring is not the place for that kind of exchange in my opinion.

Posting comments about images in "Post your . . ." threads is perfectly acceptable. It can lead to discussions, though they're usually short. My gut feeling is, people who could say more and create a chain of replies are holding back for fear of irritating others who come to a thread mostly to see photos and would get impatient with "too much talk."

I specifically refrain from commenting within the image sharing threads here because, during the days of POTN, conversation did often result in "too much talk" or "let's get back to images" comments. General conversation and technical details were handled elsewhere. Here at FOP, I usually ask questions or offer opinions only in the Canon Cameras and Canon Lens sections. I think having separate sections for different purposes is not only efficient but logical.

 

[OhLook]

I specifically refrain from commenting within the image sharing threads here because, during the days of POTN, conversation did often result in "too much talk" or "let's get back to images" comments. General conversation and technical details were handled elsewhere. Here at FOP, I usually ask questions or offer opinions only in the Canon Cameras and Canon Lens sections. I think having separate sections for different purposes is not only efficient but logical.

At one time, POTN had a separate forum for discussion threads that corresponded to threads in the image-sharing forum. Later, the two kinds were combined, so that you had wildlife photos and wildlife talk mixed together in one subforum. Focus carried on with the latter arrangement. The "image-sharing" section is called Photo Sharing & Discussion. Theoretically, discussion is just as legitimate there as photos are. We shouldn't need to be shy about raising questions or issues there. Even staff members start threads to point to interesting websites or competitions. But straying too long from simply commenting on posted images may bother viewers who are here only for the pictures and don't want to open a thread if what's new in it is just conversation.

 

[paddler4]

This really reflects two very different purposes in posting. Some people want a chance to show their images and perhaps collect a few likes. Other people want suggestions for possible improvement. These are both perfectly fine, but they are very different. It appears that this site has mostly attracted the first group. Another site I watch, Cambridge in Colour (CiC), has a lot of people from the second group, with active discussion of composing and editing alternatives and now and again technical suggestions. These communities grow naturally, so that's just the way it is.

I'm in the second group. I've profited a great deal from critiques and suggestions I've gotten on CiC, and I often add to my posts there specific questions about a first edit. Sometimes I get comments that I think are way off base, at least to my taste, but I get a lot that are worth thinking about and quite a few that push me to do things differently. And I've learned and taught a few techniques there. For example, the way I usually dodge and burn (not using a dodge and burn tool) I learned there, and I've posted a technique for burning areas that are nearly blown out without creating a gray cast. There has also been discussion there about how to change tonality, e.g., contrast, without also changing saturation (something Lightroom has just made much easier).

But that's just me. If most folks here want the other, that's of course fine too.

When this thread started, my question was whether there is sufficient interest in critiques to maintain a forum or two on this site for that purpose, separate from the "post your X" forums. It seems not. There is a "Critique Corner" forum, but it gets very few posts. It looks like there were only 6 new threads started there in all of 2024.

 

[Archibald]

Now that you mention it, there seems to be less discussion and technical talk here at FOP than there was before in POTN.

 

[Mr Roboto]

I'm all for the conversational/educational style environment. I was a moderator years ago on an early digital forum and helped move it towards a hybrid share/learn/teach system by creating how-to topics that encouraged a lot of questions and examples. I prefer to be involved in meaningful conversations that help people wherever I am.

I viewed FOP as a new library in town. The shelves were bare and needed to be filled quickly before patrons left in disappointment. The Lens Sample Archive section was particularly important, in my opinion, to get up running as quickly as possible as a lot of people would be using the site to examine image examples on lenses new and old. I've been doing my best to help with that in hopes that other people would jump in to create a solid library of useful images. All my images are hosted here so that my EXIF data remains intact to provide as much information as possible. Unfortunately, this collection is still woefully inadequate. As examples, consider that our library currently consists of the following:

RF 50mm f/1.8 has only 21 posts​

EF 50mm f/1.8 has only 11 posts​

EF 35mm f/1.4L II has only 4 posts​

MP-E 65mm f/2.8 has only 10 posts​

EF 16-35mm f/2.8L III has only 1 post​

If we want a more conversational/educational style site (I do), then we all should be trying in small ways to move it in that direction.

 

[paddler4]

I think you are talking about yet a third type of post. The ones I was referring to are mostly not about equipment. They are about composition and editing of images.

I know there is a lot of enthusiasm for the lens sample archives, but I personally don't look at or contribute to them. Images that are downsized that much and are already processed aren't a reliable indicator of lens quality, IMHO. Downsizing is particularly important. Images from even fairly weak lenses often look quite sharp when downsized if the capture is good, and of course, editing can make them look even better. That's why everything looks good on phones. And the posted images often don't include material that addresses likely weaknesses, e.g., corner sharpness, barrel and pincushion distortion, and CA on high-contrast edges. When I consider buying a lens (very rarely these days), I look for technical reviews of the alternatives.

 

[Lester Wareham]

So true. And a mild suggestion can trigger an outburst of extreme anger, as though criticism of criticism is fine.

A lot depends on the way things are put; I have had rather abrasive critique that has put me off posting on some fora on POTN; being a mod was no protection, possibly a challenge.

The critique was probably valid and useful, but not constructively put or with any sensitivity for my level of expertise in the field.

So be mindful that the poster my be very inexperienced in the subject field, they may be delighted to get a rare shot which looks mediocre to you.

Just be sensitive; ask if they want critique first.

As always, the golden rule is "don't be a jerk".

 

[OhLook]

This really reflects two very different purposes in posting. Some people want a chance to show their images and perhaps collect a few likes. Other people want suggestions for possible improvement. These are both perfectly fine, but they are very different. . . .

I'm in the second group.

Yeah, me too (mostly), and thank you for articulating this difference. I can't complain that nobody gives me useful feedback if I haven't asked for it. Time to add something to my signature.

EDIT: Done!

 

[Mike_d]

I usually have the site set to show new posts. So, a "post your" thread will pop up and I'll think, "I have a picture of that", so I contribute. I'm less inclined to just post a random photo in a new thread unprompted.

 

[Archibald]

Yeah, me too (mostly), and thank you for articulating this difference. I can't complain that nobody gives me useful feedback if I haven't asked for it. Time to add something to my signature.

EDIT: Done!

I found that it makes no difference. Let's see what happens in your case.

 

[AS_Photo]

If you are annoyed seeing so many of these consolidated sub-categories fill up the page, can you imagine if everyone created separate posts of every individual image? The Nature & Landscape category alone would have hundreds of pages instead of the current 12.

Yes, I can imagine. It would be wonderful.

 

[MakisM1]

Yes, I can imagine. It would be wonderful.

Why?

 

[Archibald]

Most forums (for instance FM, Backcountry...) don't do mega threads. A member will create a new thread for every post, which might contain one or more of his own photos. This works fine. Visitors can view the threads that interest them based on the Subject line and make comments, but not post their own photos.

Mega threads also work fine. They are common too, in some forums. POTN had a mix of them, and that worked well, IMO.

Currently at FOP, we are trending to an overwhelming number of serial threads, and that might be too much for some of us. One problem with it is that when you click on New posts, all you get is a list of megathreads, without any indication of what is in them that might interest you. Another problem is that when you want to post a photo, it can be tricky figuring out which pre-existing thread is the most appropriate for it.

At FOP, we have the freedom to post either way. Just post the way you want, and read them the way you want.