Adobe ‘trapped customers’ into subscriptions, FTC says in lawsuit

[Scott M]

Seems like they give warning now:
View attachment 80986

I dumped Lightroom when it went to a subscription model, so I haven't paid attention to their pricing model. Adobe doesn't give you a deal if you pre-pay annually? Why would anyone pay them for a year up-front without a discount?

 

[Nature's Spectrum]

As far as I recall I've always received notification of renewal. I have the whole suite and perhaps it is treated differently as such.

 

[Mike_d]

Which cars are do #5, 6, 7, or 8?
Some cars, especially hybrids, will turn the engine off after a period on non-motion. My experience is that stepping on the gas pedal gets them going again. In the USA, that feature can be turned off. That's not "stalling" as it is an expected operation. One can buy replacement batteries for EVs. My opinion is any car manufactured since the 1960's is an expensive, disposable, appliance.

#5 - Any car with auto start/stop, which is more and more cars. I've seen people's engines shut off and re-start while parallel parking. At least a hybrid can still move without the engine, but an ICE car need to restart the engine before you can go anywhere. Good luck making a quick turn from a stop with no power. Yes, it can be disabled, but why should I have to disable a stupid "feature" I didn't want? And how long before you can't disable it?

#6 - Any car with auto braking, which is soon to be required on all new cars. I know people who've had their cars brake unexpectedly when a car stopped at a side street nosed out just a little too far for the computer's comfort. Nope. Don't want it.

#7 - Any new car does this. Required feature (I think) after that actor ran himself over with his own car. If you don't know how to put your car in park or neutral+brake before getting out, maybe you shouldn't be driving.

#8 - I've seen too many stories of EV's needing a new battery that costs more than the car. There was one recently about a Hyundai in Canada that hit something, grazed the protective plate over the battery, and they totaled the car because they said the entire battery needed replacement. It cost more than the car. Sure, you can try "Larry's discount rebuilt batteries" and hope the 1000lb of Chinese grade cells don't burn your house down.

I don't agree that every car since the 60's is disposable in the way EVs are. Cost-wise EVs are basically batteries on wheels. No single component in an ICE car is as relatively expensive as the battery is to an EV.

 

[Capn Jack]

#5 - Any car with auto start/stop, which is more and more cars. I've seen people's engines shut off and re-start while parallel parking. At least a hybrid can still move without the engine, but an ICE car need to restart the engine before you can go anywhere. Good luck making a quick turn from a stop with no power. Yes, it can be disabled, but why should I have to disable a stupid "feature" I didn't want? And how long before you can't disable it?

#6 - Any car with auto braking, which is soon to be required on all new cars. I know people who've had their cars brake unexpectedly when a car stopped at a side street nosed out just a little too far for the computer's comfort. Nope. Don't want it.

#7 - Any new car does this. Required feature (I think) after that actor ran himself over with his own car. If you don't know how to put your car in park or neutral+brake before getting out, maybe you shouldn't be driving.

#8 - I've seen too many stories of EV's needing a new battery that costs more than the car. There was one recently about a Hyundai in Canada that hit something, grazed the protective plate over the battery, and they totaled the car because they said the entire battery needed replacement. It cost more than the car. Sure, you can try "Larry's discount rebuilt batteries" and hope the 1000lb of Chinese grade cells don't burn your house down.

I don't agree that every car since the 60's is disposable in the way EVs are. Cost-wise EVs are basically batteries on wheels. No single component in an ICE car is as relatively expensive as the battery is to an EV.

My experience counts as much as anyone elses.

#5 I've no issues on the cars with this feature that I've rented. The engine isn't stalling if the engine is being turned on or off under the control of the software.

#6- I've only had issues when some moron cuts me off on the highway because they are almost passing their exit. I can turn auto-braking on or off as needed. The good news is that in the future, the fool that zig-zags in traffic and cuts off people will be discouraged from that behavior because their car will auto brake.

#7- Many new cars don't set the parking brake automatically. Those that have the feature allow it to be turned off. It's like configuring a new computer, which is what modern cars have become, for better or worse.

#8- Don't believe all the stories on the internet! Most of them are click bait. What do you mean by "Chinese grade" cells? Like anyone else, some companies there make quality products, and others cut corners. Right now, I'd trust their C-919 airliner over a new Boeing product. Boeing has certainly cut enough corners and they are paying for it now! The Chinese are well ahead of us now in batteries using environmentally friendlier materials (sodium instead of lithium), fast charging, and higher energy density batteries than we get here.

We have differing opinions on modern cars and that's fine. A new replacement engine isn't cheap, either, and rebuilds aren't always great, either.

 

[SkedAddled]

The discussion seems to have gone way off from the whole Adobe subscription pricing thing,
but carry on, if you must.

 

[gjl711]

Only so much you can say about the subscription model. Folks have pretty much chosen a side, best thing ever, got to put up with it, or satan inspired. Not much mind changing any more so on to more fun stuff.

 

[Nick5]

Aren’t we all communicating via “Subscription”?

 

[OhLook]

Aren’t we all communicating via “Subscription”?

Do you mean at Focus? I wouldn't say so. This platform is free to use. Donations are voluntary. To get online, of course, you have to pay your ISP unless you own it, and you pay for electricity, but you have some choices about both of those services.

 

[Nick5]

No Oh Look.
I mean “Internet Provider”
We pay every month for Cable, Internet and other Television services, Apple TV Netflix to name a few.
Basically a “Subscription”
If not to them first, we can’t be here chatting today from the comfort of home every morning during “Coffee Time”…

 

[OhLook]

Do you mean at Focus? I wouldn't say so. . . . To get online, of course, you have to pay your ISP. . . .

No Oh Look.
I mean “Internet Provider”
We pay every month for Cable, Internet and other Television services. . . .

Right. Thanks for explaining what you meant. ISP = internet service provider. I pay mine for Internet and phone service (optical fiber, no cable, no TV). The difference is, there's more competition. Many ISPs are out there asking you to switch to their brand, but there's only one Adobe.

 

[gjl711]

.... Many ISPs are out there asking you to switch to their brand, but there's only one Adobe.

Well, that's not really true. There are many image editors and just about every product in the Adobe line has a competitor. For photographers, there are Light room and Photoshop alternatives some better in some ways, many close, others not so good.

 

[OhLook]

Well, that's not really true. There are many image editors and just about every product in the Adobe line has a competitor. For photographers, there are Light room and Photoshop alternatives some better in some ways, many close, others not so good.

I guess it depends on how you define "many."

 

[gjl711]

I guess it depends on how you define "many."

Quick search brings up a site with 18 alternatives. One can argue how good some are, but there are many out there.

18+ Best Adobe Photoshop Alternatives (Free & Paid) 2024

Adobe Photoshop is one of the best editing programs but not everyone's preference. See our list of the best Photoshop alternatives for more options.

justcreative.com

1. Luminar AI — The best Photoshop AI alternative
2. Affinity Photo — One of the most powerful Photoshop alternatives
3. Canva — The best free Photoshop alternative online
4. Paint.NET — Best Software for Digital Photo Editing
5. CorelDRAW — A powerful Photoshop alternative for vectors + rastor
6. Procreate — The best alternative for digital illustration
7. GIMP — A free Photoshop alternative with a similar UI
8. Sketch — The best professional Photoshop alternative
9. Pixelmator Pro — The best alternative for photos
10. Fotor — The best alternative for quick lighting fixes
11. Photopea — A browser-based alternative
12. Pixlr X — An alternative for drag-and-drop interfaces
13. Inpixio Photo Studio — A user-friendly alternative
14. Design Wizard — An advertising and social media design alternative
15. Rebelle 4 — A great software for replicating painting techniques
16. Krita — One of the most robust design and editing software
17. PhotoDirector 365 — An AI alternative for photographers and editors
18. Artrage — A Photoshop alternative for creating artwork

 

[Ltdave]

i dont like the subscription model.
i HAVE the subscription model for LrC and Ps and whatever else comes with it.

when i bought my 5D4, the version of Lr i had (5.71) couldnt read the RAW files. there was a work around
when i bought my R62, the subscription change came soon after that allowed me to tether the camera to Lr. i liked that it updated.

its just a fact of life, if i want to use Lr i guess. ive tried C1 but saw NO DIFFERENCE in my end product but its a learning curve, i dont want to play around with

 

[paddler4]

Thanks for explaining what you meant. ISP = internet service provider. I pay mine for Internet and phone service (optical fiber, no cable, no TV). The difference is, there's more competition. Many ISPs are out there asking you to switch to their brand, but there's only one Adobe.

Where I am sitting now, there is one internet provider. It charges nearly double what is charged in some communities in this state that have multiple ISPs. In contrast, there are a bunch of serious competitors to Adobe, including On1, Capture 1, Paint Shop Pro, and Affinity, among others.

The debate about the subscription model has long since become repetitive. There is nothing underhanded about it; it's just a different pricing model, one that is more and more frequently used. If you don't like it, buy something that still uses the "perpetual" + upgrade model. You have plenty of choices, although I wouldn't assume that none of them will eventually go with the subscription model.

The current fuss about Adobe is another matter altogether; if the accusations are accurate, this suggests something that is inappropriate and manipulative and should be ended. That won't end the subscription model, however, which has proved to be very good for the company's bottom line, and they do, after all, have an obligation to their stockholders to make money.

For my purposes, the Adobe suite remains the best option, in part because of its strengths but also because I have sunk hundreds of hours into learning it. I'm staying put.

 

[Mike_d]

The difference is switching costs. I recently switched ISPs. I plugged my router into a different box and that was it. The rest of the family didn't even know I'd done it.

If you have two decades of experience with Photoshop and a decade's worth of photos in Lightroom, jumping to another product is no small task.

 

[evelakes]

You're better off without Norton.

Crazy how they push for more services that are Always bad in reviews.

 

[paddler4]

If you have two decades of experience with Photoshop and a decade's worth of photos in Lightroom, jumping to another product is no small task.

Exactly. That's one of the reasons that I'm staying put with Adobe. And the recent fuss doesn't affect those of us who are staying put. It only affects people who try to cancel, if I understand.

I objected to the subscription service when it started, but in point of fact, since I tended to keep up to date in the old system because I wanted the new features and the photographer's basic package is cheap, it didn't end up having much if any effect on my costs, and I have found it very convenient. The people who lost out with the subscription model are the ones who stayed on out of date versions of the software for many years without updating.

Switching ISPs is simple if your email address isn't connected to them. I have my own domain, so switching ISPs is easy. For people who have an address tied to an ISP, it's a nightmare.

 

[West Coast Birder]

I have a question for those of you who ditched Lightroom for another product that isn't subscription based. Is there any way to "port" the LR catalog to the new application so that any edits made to the photos in the catalog can be retained or reinterpreted in the new application's format? I am guessing that it is a next to impossible task but I thought I would ask. As Mike indicates, I have a decade of photos in my Lightroom catalog(s) and occasionally go back and re-edit some of my old photos with the additional NR and AI capabilities that newer versions of LR have, and I would hate to lose the current settings of my edits.

 

[Mike_d]

Exactly. That's one of the reasons that I'm staying put with Adobe. And the recent fuss doesn't affect those of us who are staying put. It only affects people who try to cancel, if I understand.

I objected to the subscription service when it started, but in point of fact, since I tended to keep up to date in the old system because I wanted the new features and the photographer's basic package is cheap, it didn't end up having much if any effect on my costs, and I have found it very convenient. The people who lost out with the subscription model are the ones who stayed on out of date versions of the software for many years without updating.

Switching ISPs is simple if your email address isn't connected to them. I have my own domain, so switching ISPs is easy. For people who have an address tied to an ISP, it's a nightmare.

I've been a version(s) skipper for most of the time I've been buying software. Usually, there isn't enough change from one to the next to justify the money. I used Lightroom and Photoshop Elements for a long time. The thing that got me to subscribe to the $10/mo photographer plan was actually Photoshop. Most of the YouTube tutorials are for the full Photoshop. While Elements can do most of the work, applying Ps instructions to PsE became more and more tiresome. Even if that weren't an issue, I'd have been forced to subscribe when I got a new camera and needed updated raw support.

I also used Premiere Elements, skipping several versions at a time. Premiere would have cost $20/mo which wasn't worth it to me. I'm now learning Davinci Resolve which is free and would need several Adobe products to replace. Sorry, Adobe, I'm not spending $80/mo on this stuff.

I've been advising people for 20 years to get off ISP email. It's usually not very good and it may trap you with a bad ISP. Thankfully, most people under 70 have listened and are using Gmail. The rest just complain about their crappy email and how they don't want to change.